#EdInfluence
In his inimitable style, Nick unearths the secrets of good leadership from his guests.
Trusted by thousands of education providers across the country, Browne Jacobson is an award winning national law firm helping clients and partner organisations shape and influence education policy.
#EdInfluence
S05 - E03 Charlotte Blant
Charlotte Blant, founder and CEO of Tiro, shares how childhood adversity shaped her leadership approach. "The obstacle is the way," she explains, describing how early experiences taught her "respect over rescue" and gave her "empathy for people whose lives don't fit in neat boxes".
Charlotte discusses how Tiro evolved from Youth Force to a science-focused apprenticeship provider, guided by three core values: think win-win, have a growth mindset, be a pace setter. "We are fusing technical excellence and education with human growth," she says, describing their mission to create shared value.
She explores practical strategies for maintaining culture in hybrid work, including daily huddles and six-week goal cycles, whilst warning that "fear is creeping in" to British education and leadership. "You can't innovate with one foot on the brake," Charlotte argues, advocating for "courageous, values-led leadership that plans for success, not just avoiding failure".
Drawing on psychoanalytic leadership training, Charlotte explains her shift "from reaction to reflection", and why "trusting people to be brilliant" is the antidote to fear-based control.
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Welcome to the latest episode of EdInfluence. I'm Nick MacKenzie from Browne Jacobson and today I'm delighted to be joined by Charlotte Blant, founder and CEO of Tiro, a science and technology apprenticeship provider built with a really clear mission in mind. Thank you, Charlotte, for joining me today. I wanted to start by inviting you to tell me a story from your life that would give me a picture of who you are.
Charlotte Blant:Well, thank you for having me, and I've really enjoyed spending a bit of time with you preparing for this as well. I feel like I've got to know you a little bit better too. A little bit about me, a story from my life that gives you a picture of who I am. So I'd like to go right back to when to my childhood. Up until the age of about eight, life was stable. It was it was a good life. As far as I can remember, obviously I was eight. My dad was thriving. We were he was renovating a Victorian house in Matlock Bath. He had a great career, he was in very technical sales in the steel industry. Um, and yeah, it was all it was all good, and I had a really lovely life. And then at the age of eight, life changed. Um, my mum had a massive breakdown, and she was diagnosed with paranoia schizophrenia. That's you know, that's that's how it kind of culminated. And what it was kind of a lead up to it, which I do remember, but that what ensued after the kind of the the sort of breaking point were two years of absolute chaos. And eventually, around about the age of 10, I came home one day to find that she was being sectioned, came home from school to find that she was being sectioned. There was like a house full of psychiatrists, police, ambulance workers, my dad. You know, it was it was a really horrific scene. I knew it was going to happen, um, but I thought it'd be all over by the time I got back from school, but it absolutely wasn't. It was completely in action. Um, so that was a really big, you know. Again, I remember there were moments along this journey of chaos that I remember, and that was definitely one of them. Um so my dad, that I now realise is lightly on the spectrum. Um I reckon he's who knows, but these days he'd probably be autistic, whatever. Um, he just unravelled completely. and unsurprisingly, now I know what I know about neurodiversity and spectrums, etc. Um, but he unravelled and really quickly in the 70s, they were giving out Valium, it was in like the modern day sort of Prozac. Um, he got addicted to Valium quite quickly, he got addicted to alcohol quite quickly, and then he couldn't make this up, Nick. He left with a woman half his age that was a pub singer that he met. She was a country and Western singer. Um, he sort of ran off with her and decided he needed to get a life, which actually by the age of 13 left me on my own. So I'm I'm not asking for pity here. I'm just you know, there's some funny moments which I can obviously the country western singer, uh half his age, is you know, one. Um but actually uh I met somebody when I was around in the two years of chaos, uh sort of around between nine and ten, uh, who live around the corner, called Wendy. And she was an eccentric children's author, and she became my lifeline, and we struck up an interesting friendship. Um, so me, a little girl, and uh she uh a grown woman in her mid-thirties, um, she lived in uh an old gatehouse, a little house called the Round House in Matlock Bath. Um and yeah, we I used to go over there, I used to do a bit of cleaning for her just to give me something to do. Um, but we also used to listen to radio for. We used to eat boil in the bag cod because she couldn't cook. She had a husband that lived in London who is a professor in uh aeronautics, and we used to talk about Oscar Wilde. Um, and she made being unconventional feel normal. And at the time she was also grieving the loss of her mother from cancer, so we needed each other, and I obviously, in some ways, was grieving the loss of my mother, really. I realise now looking back, and I also realise looking back later in my career. Uh I worked in youth justice in in my 20s. Um, we talked a lot about risk factors, but we also talked a lot about protective factors. She was a protective factor for me, I'd say. I'm still friends with her now, she's still equally as eccentric. Uh, I guess I've grown into being very eccentric too. Um, so I left school, started working. I mean, I left school at like I didn't really go to school from about 13. Why would I? There's no reason. Um, I learned independence, resilience, and that pity helps no one. I was quite, I couldn't bear people feeling sorry for me, and that happened quite a lot because in a small village it's quite public what was going on. Um, and I we talked about agency earlier. I had a very strong sense of agency, um, and that didn't involve pity. Um, so I guess the lessons for me at that out of all of that were that I learnt really about respect over rescue, and Wendy never rescued me. In fact, she challenged me a lot. We had quite an equal relationship. It was an interesting, still is an interesting relationship. Um, and I also embodied and realised being unconventional, it's my conventional. Um, and this is a stoic term. Um, the obstacle is the way. I really genuinely believe that. And it also gave me empathy for people whose lives don't fit in neat boxes. And I guess I came to realise you know, life's never what it seems, is it, as it was when I was eight. And I guess that's the real story of Tiro.
Nick MacKenzie:Thank you for sharing that. It's a very powerful story. Um stories for a bit then. Can you describe a time when listening to someone else's story changed your perspective as a leader? What did you take away from that?
Charlotte Blant:Yes, well, obviously, I listened to a lot of Wendy's stories, um, which were really fascinating. She'd been on the stage, she she was friends with Eunice Stubbs and used to give me some of the clothes that Eunice Stubbs had passed on to her. Um and that helped me, like I said, realise eccentricity can be a and being unconventional can be a strength, not a weakness. Um, and I think that is one of the things that's helped me. Um, but one of the leaders that I came to admire quite early on uh is Anita Roddick, uh the founder of The Body Shop, who uh passed away a few years ago, sadly. Um I went to hear her talk um when I was working with young people in that first part of my career, and she talked a lot about human rights, and she also told the story of founding the body shop, which is a really interesting story, and I came to realise that the values aren't soft, they're an operating system, and that you could bring profit and purpose together, and you could be again she was quite an eccentric character, um quite unconventional, and so it kind of I guess it reaffirmed all of that for me, and yeah, she led with conviction and con conf conscience, and it made me realise that um yeah, I guess you can you can live those values and um drive performance. Another story that's all that struck me from when I eventually went to an independent um HE provider. I only just realised uh actually last year that I was I did actually study with an independent HE provider, which is obviously what Tiro has become. Was the stories from Paolo Freire, who um was a Brazilian educator, and he uh we talked about empowerment and stuff earlier, he wrote the pedagogy of the oppressed and taught um sort of peasants literacy, and he believed education was power and that they could then through the actually. What he did was it was about contextualised learning, so it was about meeting them where they're at in a kind of a fairly equal relationship. So I guess the the term we discussed earlier is about agency and power, and I am a big fan of the term agency from a perspective of like I said, not wanting pity, wanting to feel that I've got agency and independence. Um, and I guess Anita Roddick did it through trade, and uh Paolo Freire did it through teaching. And I'm lucky enough to have brought those two things together uh at this point in my career, and it's it's a shift from helping and rescuing to partnering with people. Yeah, I think it happens. I think empowerment, which is an interesting term, it happens in context, not in theory.
Nick MacKenzie:You um started by sharing a very powerful story, and you you said that showed up in the founding of Hero, which I think was about 2005, and so you have that clear purpose, and I think our listeners will have a bit of a sense of that that purpose having listened to to you. What I I think I was interested in was is that purpose as strong today when you founded, and what have you learned over that 20-year period about staying focused with all the winds buffeting you in life going on around? What have you learned over that time about staying focused to that founding purpose?
Charlotte Blant:That's a good question. Um actually, yes, I set up the business in 2005, and I'm really excited that in November we're going to be 20, and I I don't know where the time's gone. Um, my children were five and three at the time. Um, but I founded the business's Youth Force, which was training um people that work with young people, and um the credit crunch was a bit of a crash for the youth sector. A little while after that, times got hard and we pivoted into apprenticeships, which was a new route for us to realise a similar kind of impact, um, and continue with the purpose and the values. But I think it's stronger now than ever before, because along the way the my sense of purpose and the sense of the business purpose is matured. It's not changed, it's yeah, it's matured. And I guess we rebranded to become Tiro. Along the way, we started apprenticeships and we moved into science and technology, which is basically our, I think it's our reach, it's our it's it's the best it's ever been for me. It's realizing the most shared value we could possibly ever imagine. And that was in in 2021, Youth Force just didn't reflect who we were anymore as a science and technology provider. And what I'm really proud of is that we are fusing sort of technical excellence and education with human growth, and again, back to the roots of kind of trade and education and agency and humanness and all of those things. Yeah, I think the values are even stronger. I don't know if you know our values at Tiro. Uh it's got a it's our true north, it's really important to us, and it's how we live, and I genuinely mean that. Um, our values are think win-win, which we'll recognise from Stephen Covey, who's uh an author that I love. Have a Growth Mindset that comes from Carold Weck, which I guess goes back to that agency thing that we spoke about. It's about feeling like you've got influence in your life, it's about your locus of control, I suppose. And that comes from within and from our, you know, our team. But that's what we're also espousing for our apprentices and for our employers. Um, and then the other one is uh be a pace setter, which is our own, which is about thought leadership. I guess they all go together, really, but it the the pace setter thing is about never settling, always trying to lead the way and always trying to be better and uh and set the pace. Yeah, and I'm I'm a strong believer in congruence. And I think you you you know we spoke before about not being perfect, and I have I'm by no means perfect, obviously, and as I've got older, you do you do learn you do you have to kind of learn about your imperfections and learn to live with it and almost lean into it and embrace it like you were saying. But yeah, I I'd rather be genuine and do what I say and mean it and have transparency. But I think if you go back to that eight-year-old, one of the things that kind of I guess it worked for me, kept me going. My poor dad, who really lost his way, never really found it again in the end, if I'm honest. He did he took me under his wing as his friend, but he I knew what was happening. I probably knew too much. But actually, for me that worked. I'd rather honesty, you know, I'd rather that over niceness. I'd rather kind I find that kind. I find honesty personally, I'd rather um have a difficult conversation with somebody and and be honest and open than gloss over something and ignore it and rush it under the carpet. And so that characterised my childhood. I in some ways knew too much as a child, but that's kind of stuck with me that what you see is what you get, and I think that personally it feels like that's important for people to feel safe and develop a trusting relationship. And I think relationships and connection are really, really important.
Nick MacKenzie:On um connection, then human communication can feel I think really difficult in the modern world with people maybe doing remote agile working, endless tech and new tech coming on, they can be bombarded with information streams from all over the shop. Are there are there any team rituals or practices you've seen that have helped keep people connected?
Charlotte Blant:Yeah, I mean it's it's a double-edged sword, isn't it? It's great. You know, I embrace it wholeheartedly where I can. Um, I'm not the most techie person, but I I do my best. And obviously, the hybrid world, you know, personally, obviously, I'm a real self-starter, but that's not everybody. It's it's difficult, I agree. It's difficult, and the rituals are really important. I think connection and back to the values again, it does start with values. That for me, if you were to strip everything back, the values are the most important thing. So it's it's the true north of communication. So whilst you may be using tech, and whilst it may be a hybrid world where you're not in person, and in person is really important too. Um, I think it's always about going back to your values and the communications that you have, whether they're in person or online, are about starting with those. But the rituals are really important. We have a daily huddle, and you know, you won't be surprised. I'm quite eccentric. It it it I years back came across this guy called Vern Harnish who has the rocks and the rhythm. Um, and the daily huddle is is like a daily, you know, lots of organisations do it, I know. Uh, right now we're lucky that we're small enough that we still have everybody where possible on the huddle, and it's about priorities and and blocks, but also it's quite a jokey time as well. And you can imagine, you know, we've got lots of neurodiverse people in our organisation, it's full of scientists, and it's real, it's really good fun, you know. It's they're a fun bunch, and I think that keeps us connected, but we also have town halls, um, we have retros and action learning sets, we have in-person all-staff days, which are always a combination of reconnecting, um, learning, but also they're fun. We have socials uh at those days and and evenings and dance together, um, and we have cross-teaming projects, we have some quirky stuff going on, but so there is always a pulse, and then the way we sort of do management and performance and things like that, we we don't have annual reviews, we have six-weekly goal setting, we have what does success look like in the role, we have we fortnightly catch-ups, regular team meetings, they are often in person, monthlies, quarterlies, all of these rituals and rhythms and kind of I guess they are I guess they're sort of tarot. We've built our own stories, you know, at Tiro around this stuff, and yeah, I think it's really important. And it, you know, it's never perfect, is it? But we do, we know it keeps us, I think, it keeps us connected and and we remind ourselves of why we're doing what we're doing.
Nick MacKenzie:You mentioned values a lot. Can you talk a bit about how you settled on those values? And because it's easy to do a set of values and put some words up, but they're not really values because they're not lived. What what was your experience about settling on those with the right values for your organisation and how you went about that?
Charlotte Blant:I've got a thing about the values in that I can't bear the sort of platitudes that people have, or you know, in the world of apprenticeships, you hear passionate, or it's like really overused tropes all the time. So I was conscious, we had a bit of a reset around 2019 where we really went into growth mode and gathered the team together and we really thought about this, and actually, we went through a whole process of coming up with lists of top 10 this and top 10 that, and then sort of boiling it down, and then sort of mashing them together, and then these sort of felt like they resonated, these were things that we kept returning to, um, and they just felt right for us at the time. We were quite a small team at that point, and I felt good about them, and the team felt good about them, so it was you know, we did it quite quick because I think that's the other thing. You you know, you can go down so many rabbit holes and lose yourself in it. I think you know, some of it has to be about gut, really, as well. And I just know when I hear some of these um values that you just want people to be able to remember them. You know, it's if people can't remember what they are, then you've really had it, haven't you? People need to live it, like you say, and you need to be able to latch onto it and think, right, yeah, this is how I'm creating a win-win here. This is how I'm, you know, actually being quite courageous and saying no to something, or I'm actually having a debate and challenging somebody because I'm gonna lose if I do that, or you're gonna lose, and I'm just gonna walk away. And actually, in the long run, is that a sustainable win? So it's quite easy then to for people to remember. So I'm a big fan of memorable. Um, one of the things that we have internally is uh the superhuman academy, and people always remember that. And actually, I was talking about it yesterday with one of our clients, um, and my colleague sort of said to me, Oh, tell her, tell her how you came up with that one. And I tell you why. It's because a few years back I realised to work in this industry, you've got to be superhuman, you've actually got to be, and it I mean it in the nicest possible way. Um, I think we could all try and be a bit more superhuman, couldn't we? But I remember at the time, and this is probably why Anita Roddick resonated so well with me. I knew she was a bit marmite. Um, I remember at the time, it's years ago that I came up with this superhuman thing. People, some people got angry with me for using that term. Um, I thought, okay, they've remembered. So I guess that's I don't know if that answers your question in a roundabout way.
Nick MacKenzie:I love the concept of superhuman. I mean, for me, I'm I'm just thinking, just recognise how human is we're really fortunate to be human, and we are very special, and sometimes it's easy to forget that. And reminding superhuman, I I love, not in like a superman sense, but just reminding yourselves how special, how lucky we are with um what we've got to actually be living and breathing and having a life in the way we have it.
Charlotte Blant:I completely agree, and that's exactly where the sentiment comes from. It doesn't come from you have to be perfect or you, you know, it's rec a recognition that you know, yeah, I guess you never make it, it's hard, right? So it's important to keep trying.
Nick MacKenzie:So thinking a bit about effectiveness, then, which has been perhaps a bit of a theme. When things get tough, and clearly they have in in your life, how do you go about responding to that pressure?
Charlotte Blant:Yeah, that's uh another interesting and good question. I think I've talked a lot about true north, so that's obviously there. I live I did live with a lot of pressure, and I I you know I had good training, right, when I was young. I, you know, so I've I'm very, very good in very adverse situations. So it's just a natural, you know, I I learned that early on. However, my early patterns were to fix all the time, brush into things, rescue, very, very busy, working too hard, and you know, it worked okay, but uh until it didn't. And then in my mid-40s, I went on this really quirky leadership program, which was really good actually, but really left field. It was about using psychoanalysis in leadership in FE, and I had a light bulb moment during that program, which led to me going to therapy. About 11, 12 years ago, this was, and I have been going to therapy ever since. Um, and that was life-changing for me, and I guess what I learned what I've learned through therapy, it's a lot about self-awareness. Um I learned to slow down a bit, and I realised that previously I'd been in third gear revving the engine like crazy, and what therapy has done for me, it's enabled me to move from reaction to reflection, although I was taught that early on in my career because my degree was all about reflective practice. But I've started to I think probably the therapy enabled me to not just know it theoretically and sort of cerebrally, but it enabled me to understand it emotionally. So I've really come along emotionally and to be able to uh tune in to that, and now I'm able to. I mean, and get don't get me wrong, I am pretty ADHD and quite can be a little bit chaotic, but um I'm able to kind of look step step out and look at the big picture and reflect and sort of shift gears. I know how to shift through the gears now and get into fifth, and it feels amazing. It feels amazing, you know, like when you learn to drive and you suddenly go, oh wow, this is I'm cruising. It it's like that. But I love pressure, I absolutely really like I think it's probably, you know, it's maybe from my beginnings. My favourite thing that I've done this year was Ofstead. I absolutely loved it. I I I do Ofstead, not every day. Um I do it annually. I I love it. Uh probably everybody in my organisation would kill me for saying that. But I think they would they, you know, if you asked any of them, they'd say, yeah, yeah, she loved it.
Nick MacKenzie:So y you gave a bit of a mixed picture there in in in Terms of loving the pressure, yet learning about the power of going into fifth gear and having some reflection. When you are making that that time to reflect or to think, how how much time do you do you manage to make to do that? And and when you are reflecting, thinking, what are the sorts of things that you use that time to think about?
Charlotte Blant:It's interesting. Um I mean, like I said, I it I'd be lying if I said, oh well, I diary it out and I schedule it and I schedule me time and and thinking time. I I don't do that. I do inadvertently, but I kind of I know I need it and I do take the time out. And interestingly, sometimes it's not about thinking about anything, and that's really important, and it's about quiet. And my husband and I we've been renovating a place in Italy in the mountains, and it is it's amazing, it's so calm and quiet and natural and peaceful, and it feels like we've restored the house and now it restores us because we go, I go there with him, and I just feel like nothing can get to me. And I recognise, I mean, I what I used to do, I guess, how I used to get my kicks in that respect. I back in the day when I was super busy, didn't know how to stop. I would go to festivals, I would do things that would stop me thinking and keep me busy. They'd you know, it'd be full on. So, you know, like a spinning class in a like or go to a rave, or you know, it'd be like I I mean, I love uh chaos and excitement, and and I would use that to weirdly to recharge, but now I've really come to appreciate space and almost like white noise, I suppose, and just calm. And um, so I know I sometimes feel guilty when I think, oh I I used to do it naturally when I first started the business, just going off wandering around on my own, and I think, oh dear, if anyone catches me, I'm I'm not actually busy, I don't in the diary. But actually, I it's actually good, you need it.
Nick MacKenzie:The um book I've just read recently is like uh an overview of everything we know about the human mind, and one of the chapters they have in it is all about consciousness and what is consciousness. I do I do think it's interesting to think about because listening to you, I was just thinking about sometimes we underestimate the power of the unconscious mind and that just creating the space, the silence. Because we've not got conscious thought, we almost kid ourselves that the brain isn't working, but it is.
Charlotte Blant:Absolutely, and that's why everyone complains about no one's bored anymore. You need the boredom, it's not boredom, you know. I could just actually just sit and stare. And I used to think that was because I was a bit cuckoo, but actually I realised now no, I'm just it's meditation, really. That's actually what they call it, the trendy term. But yeah, I've I you know, I guess it's my own way, yeah, it's important.
Nick MacKenzie:We're we're getting towards the the end of our time. I wanted to just pick your brains a bit about storytelling before perhaps asking just a few final questions. But I was yeah, I was interested in your perspective about how important storytelling is as perhaps say a tool for a leader.
Charlotte Blant:I think I do think it's really, really important, but you know, like I said about congruence, it has to be authentic. Nothing worse than somebody telling a fake story or not really meaning it, or it's a bit scripted. So I do think it is really important, but you can't force it, if that makes sense. So I think stories do make idea ideas real, and they do connect people to purpose and yeah, it makes things real. I've got a tendency to go down some eccentric metaphors route. I like a metaphor, and sometimes I have to say, sometimes they're slightly borderline risque, you know, like the sort of Mickey Flanagan, Jimmy Carr style risque. I like humour a lot, and sometimes it's a little bit out there, I suppose. A metaphor that, and I and I kind of beg and borrow them from all over while I'm going around talking to people. A metaphor that I used during the uh during our offstead was this thing that I borrowed from my hairdresser. Uh, because we love to chat, we have some really deep conversations, and I guess lots of people do with their hairdressers. He's he's really he's really cool. His son is a tennis coach, and he told me that the most important lesson when his son is coaching people is to master gaze. So not to look where the balls come from, but to look where it's going. Um, if you can crack gaze, then you can crack tennis, apparently. And I use this metaphor during Ofsted all the way through, kept coming back to her. And I think I think those things are useful. To try and get people not to focus on the fear, but focus on where it can take you and focus on the future and the good stuff and the opportunity. Um, so I love a metaphor. That was a clean one that wasn't too risque.
Nick MacKenzie:Um okay, so really just need to start to bring our discussion to an end, I'm afraid. But what issue trend do you worry that business and perhaps other organisational leaders are not paying enough attention to right now?
Charlotte Blant:Fear. That's what I'm worried about. I am worried that people are afraid of resetting failure, uh, trust. Fear seems to I'm worried that it's creeping in and and it's not a good thing for leadership. Um I feel like uh British education is still built on control and compliance. Um I feel that we need to have a more courageous, values-led leadership in education that plans for success, uh not just avoiding failure. And I don't think you can innovate with one foot on the brake. So I feel like if you're leading from a position of fear, then um, or you're you're holding back because you're worried about what people might think of you or how it's going to go down, or not being, you know, you don't want to be too bold in case it's not popular. I worry that that silence, the wrong ideas get heard and the void gets filled. Um, and yeah, it's there's some really worrying trends happening, and I think that's because um because of the fear. And I think, you know, like I said about the gays, you've got to put the fear to one side and you've got to forget about yourself, you know, a bit like Marcus Aurelius did. You know, he accepted death is inevitable, so oh well, you know, and I think that make when you kind of come to terms with that, then you're fearless, aren't you? Ultimately, that's the ultimate. And that is a trend that I am. I'm worried about it in British politics, I'm worried about it in British education, and just generally, yeah, that I think that's the the thing. I think you've got to be courageous in leadership and trust people to be brilliant, haven't you? Um, not fear that they're gonna do the wrong thing because people are amazing, aren't they? The human spirit is an amazing thing. Um, so yeah, I think it's we've got all this tech, like you say, and so we can have tech smart, but we also need human smart.
Nick MacKenzie:So let's move from fear. Final question. What what brings you 80% of your joy as a leader, Charlotte?
Charlotte Blant:Well, you won't be surprised to hear it's watching potential become reality, and I am you know my job is absolutely joyous. That's why I like to go and visit our employers and our learners as often as possible because and also our people internally, you see that confidence clicking. Um, it's about the shared growth, it's about when the customers thank you for challenging them, when you're partnering, real partnership. And also, I think Anita Roddick proved this in a heyday that the scale and the statistics are important, they're proof that purpose works. You can't have one without the other. So we do what I'm proud of is that we are starting to create scale, we are high quality, we do have the performance, and but we are not we're not losing purpose, we're not tooling back on purpose, and so I'm on a mission to prove this that you can have uh profit and performance um and purpose, purpose and performance. I think, yeah. And then of course, the Italian mountains, that brings me a lot of joy too.
Nick MacKenzie:Superb. Well, Charlotte, thank you so much for joining me today and thank you for your for your openness. I've thoroughly enjoyed our discussion, and I'm sure our listeners have as well.
Charlotte Blant:Well, thank you for having me. I've thoroughly enjoyed it too. It's been really good getting to know you as well. Um, yeah, it's been good fun. Thank you.
Nick MacKenzie:Thank you.
